The Archbishop of Canterbury is traveling in India, where he has given an interview to The Hindu, which is beginning to make the rounds because of his reported comments on the Ordinariates. His comments are reported there as follows:
Relations with Catholic Church
Your tenure has seen fraught relations with the Roman Catholic Church. It has seen the all-but-unilateral Apostolic Constitution that the Pope issued last year, creating a new Anglican rite within the Roman Catholic Church that was aimed at Anglicans who were uncomfortable with the ordination of women and gay clergy. What are your comments on this situation? There was the newspaper headline that spoke of the papal tanks on the lawns of Lambeth Palace.
Yes, I know. I said at that time that was a nonsensical version of the story. I was very taken aback that this large step was put before us without any real consultation. And it did seem to me that some bits of the Vatican didn't communicate with other bits. Overall it seemed to me a pastoral provision for certain people who couldn't accept where the Church of England was going, a pastoral provision which didn't in itself affect the relations between the two Churches, between mainstream Churches. But it caused some ripples because I think there was a widespread feeling that it would have been better to consult. There were questions that could have been asked and answered and dealt with together. And as this is now being implemented, we are trying to make sure that there is a joint group which will keep an eye on how it's going to happen. In England, the relations between the Church of England and Roman Catholic Bishops are very warm and very close. I think we are able to work together on this and not find it a difficulty.
Any of us who deal with the press or just read it, know that reporters and editors often miss nuances or cut material that someone more knowledgeable of a specific subject would find important. This is an interview that will likely require a bit of clarification from Lambeth for the round of speculation it will no doubt set off.
While many readers here might disagree with any number of his theological opinions, Archbishop Williams remains widely respected by many pursuing the Ordinariate option in the UK and abroad.
UPDATE: As predicted above, The Telegraph's new religion correspondent, Tim Ross, has written a story cobbling together the quote from The Hindu interview with more than a dash of speculation to create a piece with the headline, "Archbishop of Canterbury moves to flush out Anglicans plotting to defect to Rome."
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Another chockfull from the crackpot.
"In England, the relations between the Church of England and Roman Catholic Bishops are very warm and very close. I think we are able to work together on this and not find it a difficulty."
I pray that the ABC will be positively available, as well as the RC bishops, as the CDF and the Ordinary see it necessary.
I wonder if the "warm and very close" relations could be translated into making some buildings available for Ordinariate parishes. In fact, there are quite a few pre-reformation churches which, if they were given back, could really cement those "warm and very close" relations.
Yes, but most of the pre-Reformation churches cost in the region of thousands to tens of thousands of pounds just to stop them from collapsing into rubble. And in these straitened times the State money which has been made available to many of them for this purpose is being seriously curtailed if not cancelled altogether. Beautiful though these buildings may be (said Stephen, whose church is a brick-and-concrete box, but he's not bitter, oh no he's not), I think that the Ordinariate will not want the responsibility for upkeep, and the local Catholic diocese certainly won't.
Irrespective of who they should belong to, palming off those exquisite money-sinks may well be a case of passing the albatross. Not in every case, certainly, but in many. If I were a member of the Ordinariate, given a choice between the plain and serviceable 1920's Catholic church that was closed in 2003, and the glorious 15th Century building with drainage, subsidence and roofing problems, then I know which one I would choose (even though it would break my heart).
That said, there are bound to be some situations where, no matter what the age of the CofE building, I would hope that generosity and common sense will prevail.
One good reason I can see as to why the ++ABC was not consulted about the AC was that HE WOULD HAVE JUST ASKED THEM NOT TO DO IT!
And did the Anglicans bother to "consult" Rome or the Orthodox about attempting to ordain women as priests and bishops?
And did they heed that advice?
On two Catholic websites they posted an article from Catholic World, where the Archbishop feels he should be part of the planning of the Ordinariate. I hope they quoted him incorrectly.
The Holy Father has taken the Ordinariate out of the hands of the local Bishops and he expects that he will be allowed to interfere. This is difficult to believe. Has anyone else read this. He might be cozey with some Catholic Bishops, but he is the reason Anglicans are leaving the Anglican Communion in the United Kingdom.
The practical issue is the Sharing of Church Buildings Act. The state religion can allow other Christian congregations the use of its buildings on mutually agreed terms, but has no obligation to do so. The important issue is that there should be no discrimination between congregations which are part of the local Roman hierarchy and congregations which are part of the Ordinariate in this matter. That is an instance of the situations in which the Ordinariate will need the help and support of the local hierarchy.
I am always interested in what the ABC has to say. I am unique in that he had to apologize publicly to me last year . I dont have any respect for him. That apology had to be extracted by force.
Leaving that aside. I am greatly concerned that he seems to be suggesting that there will be some sort of joint Anglican/RC group that will keep an eye on the implementation of the Apostolic Constitution. Who will be a member of this group ? Will the deliberations of the group be accountable? The C of E has a terrible track record when it comes to transparency.
At the National Assembly of FiF the Bishop of Richborough was due to speak on the Ordinariate. This was changed at the last minute and he did not speak. Father James Patrick spoke instead. I wonder why the Episcopal Curate ( + Richborough ) of the ABC withdrew from this role ? Is this the first action of the new Anglican/Roman secret police ?
The ABC should be told by the CDF that the Ordinariate is none of his business.
The ABC should be told by the CDF that the Ordinariate is none of his business.
Well, since Rome hath no jurisdiction in this Realm of England, I would say that the CDF should do no such thing. The Archbishop of Canterbury doesn't need any additional help to make him look silly; he manages quite well on his own. The CDF can pursue its usual practice of listening politely and then carrying as before.
This "joint working group" to oversee the Ordinariate is fanciful. If it happens, I will eat my Red Hat.
How well do you know the workings of the Ministry Division of the C of E ?
How big is your hat ? I hope it is small and easily consumed.
The Road to Church House Westminster is littered with the bodies of those who have been abused by the Ministry Division of the C of E.
I would not be in the least surprised if the ABC has set up a group with his liberal RC chums to work against the Ordinariate. It is completely in character.
I have considered your comment that the idea of a joint working group is fanciful.
Why would the ABC refer to something that does not exist ?
How would you react if I told you that I can prove to you that the Ministry Division of the C of E kept ( and for all I know still keeps ) working files on priests who are not priests of the C of E ? Would that be fanciful ?
If it happens you will not know about it. You might be on the receiving end of their actions .If you find out about it the C of E legal boys will do all in their power to stop you using the information that you have obtained.
Ok Father, let me revise my statement in the light of your comments (although I'm sorry, I do find some of them fanciful, but I remain open to being convinced). Oh, and I come from a family of lawyers, so the CofE's crack legal squad doesn't particularly scare me.
The Archbishop of Canterbury and some of his Catholic "chums" may well establish a little group to look at the Ordinariate. Unfortunately for them, the management of the Ordinariate is within the competence of the CDF, so their little group, should it manifest, is unlikely to be anything other than a talking shop. If it gets too noisy, I expect the CDF will lean on the Catholic bishops and continue to politely ignore the Anglican ones.
I still remain positive that a large majority of Catholic bishops in England and Wales are either pro-Ordinariate or "not anti". I remain convinced that the Ordinariate is a prophetic gesture and the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Even if there is a secret cabal of Anglican and Catholic bishops whose sole purpose in life is to thwart the Ordinariate, I do not believe that such a plot will succeed.
In the end, I have more faith in God than in the plots of man.
I wish Icould say more but will simply say that, as a young priest intending to enter the Ordinariate, i remain very optimistic. Doubtless the devil will rage against this prophetic movement on both sides of the Tiber but God is good and I anticipate a wonderful few years ahead…..
Well said Father.
I think the devil is at work. He has good friends in the C of E who have worked with him for many years.
I too remain optimistic.
"He has good friends in the C of E who have worked with him for many years."
Maybe this is one of those "important things we have in common" that Catholic ecumaniacs keep extolling!
As I said earlier in the week, the Devil IS in the details and the fear they stir up. I share your faith that all will be well in the end, Fr. Tomlinson.
Odd that the Archbishop laments a lack of consultation on Rome's part while at the same time his Communion has been introducing a wide variety of innovations that have not only rocked his own Communion but that of many other churches with no consultation of people in his own church or Christendom in general. Its time the Anglican Communion grew up and realised that their choices have consequences and that Rome has a duty to throw a life-line to the very traditional Anglicans many liberals in the Anglican Communion want silenced and destroyed. My only regret is it wasn't done sooner.
What are those questions that "could have been asked and answered and dealt with together"? And where would such consultations have left Catholic members of the Church of England?
Pope Benedict has shown much wisdom when it comes to the Ordinariate and I am sure that he is controlling it and will be watching the Catholic Bishops in England who are anti the Ordinariate.
My own Bishop is against the Traditional Latin Mass, although my priest celebrates it and I asked his Auxillary Bishop when he visited our parish what the Bishop felt about the Ordinariate and he was all for it. I think that the Holy Father has put pressure on the Bishops that they better go along with the program. Of course there are some Bishops who might try to undermine it, but Pope Benedict is a strong leader in his quiet way. In the US he has replaced some of the liberal Bishops/Cardinals with more orthodox ones.
I understand that England is a different story when it comes to the relationship of Anglicans and some Catholic Bishops. I think that the ABC is terrified of the coming Ordinariate as he has no control over the Catholic Church. This is a movement of the Holy Spirit and there is no one who can stop Him from moving where He so chooses.